Poker Forums

An interesting question to ponder - this happend in one of our games recently and sparked a debate...

Consider this scenario:

1. Flop and Turn are shown and everyone checks
2. River is shown
   
3. Player One raises, trying to bluff with a huge raise (has rubbish cards).
   
4. Player Two calls.
5. Player One does not want to show how badly he/she bluffed, so folds
6. Arguement ensues

The question is: Can you fold your hand without penalty if someone has seen your raise (ie. you raise the pot and someone sees you and then you chicken out?)

Arguments For:
    You should be able to fold whenever your want at your own loss without revealing your cards. You forfeit the pot or any chance if you fold.

Arguments Against:
    Player Two has paid to see your cards, so you HAVE to show them.
   
What do you think? This subject is tricky to search on (it doesn't happen often, but the occurence of it is not the debate here). Let me know or point me in the right direction please!

In most casino's player 2 (or any player for that matter) can ask to see player 1's cards (since they were called) and they must be shown. Unless of course the cards have hit the muck pile. That is why you'll often see players throw their cards right into the dealer's muck cards. Even if the dealer slides them into the muck when collecting the cards they can't be shown. You have to be pretty quick at the casino at times asking the dealer to show you cards because half the time as you are asking they are collecting them in and are already in the muck by the time you finish asking.

Rodney,

I noticed in one of your posts you said you play the occassional online game... have you tried doing this there and if so what happened?

Hmmm - will have to remember to try this on a small pot when I am on WillHill again. My nick is ironically pokerDIY so keep an eye out for me if you play there!

Is mucking not automatic in those online game?

Most of the online sites have an "automuck" button you can check and losing hands are mucked. But in a showdown online both hands are usually shown when the hand is over. If there were more than 2 in the hand and the muck button is checked some hands will may be shown. But a number of sites have replay functions where if you go back you can see the opponents hands if they were still in at the end of the hand even if they chose to have them mucked..

I have to agree that in a case like that player two should have shown the cards. Once the it was called the player should have not been able to just fold the cards to prevent showing how badly she bluffed. I always thought at that point showing the cards was automatic.

Absolutely. You are paying just as same as the other guy, so part of that privilege is the option to fold. You are never obligated to show your hand. If there's a proper rule against this I would be surprised.

IF you call a bet on the river. You may have ot show your hand if someone requests it. It is a called bet and you have to show upon request.

On the other question it is just considered bad ethics to fold out of order.

I can see both sides of this issue.  If "one" folds, then technically "two" didn't pay anything because they are getting all the money.   But "two" was willing to take the chance, so they should get to see.

Me, I don't think I would worry.  If "one" is willing to throw in the towel after making such a bold bet, I know he's bluffing.

I agree totally with kelkat. While I like to see what I 'beat'... if they fold, chances are I didn't beat anything worth looking at anyway!  

On the other hand, someone could be playing like that to convince you that they are a bluffer so they can trap you later...

i would never asked to see a hand because lets say he misread his hand and had a straight or somthing that beats you. when the hand is exposed if it beats you they get the pot. so I would not really condone this type of play ./

But doing these kinds of things really increase the excitement of tehe game , i do ask people to show up before the game

I think it is but you can turn it off if you like